What skill should I take next?

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Re: What skill should I take next?

Postby deadned » Sun Oct 17, 2010 9:04 pm

I've already gotten my basic combat skill set taken care of, so i've been focusing on making my runs go faster. My philosophy has been to see what part of the game has taken the most time and/or is the most frustrating, and then figure out which skill to get to make my next run easier.
I use to have problems getting elemental resistance to adventure in the bat hole, and also to finish the trapper quest on level 8. So picking up Elemental saucesphere or astral shell would save me time by not needing to look for that gear. I already use empathy so i went with the turtle tamer skill. I know i could wait until i unlock black paint, but i usually need early meat.
The Nuns side quest was taking too long, so i looked into getting polka of plenty, and saved a little bit of time there. the crabs don’t show up soon enough, so i get Musk of moose and Canticle of Confrontation. The level 12 quest is actually pretty frustrating as a low skill player since each side zone requires a "trick" and the battlefield warriors are pretty tough.

I'm a little surprised to see that Shieldbutt is tier 1 and Stringozzi isn't even on the list! I suppose it has to do with different combat styles.
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Re: What skill should I take next?

Postby TheDownstairsFrank » Fri Oct 22, 2010 8:07 am

deadned wrote:
I'm a little surprised to see that Shieldbutt is tier 1 and Stringozzi isn't even on the list! I suppose it has to do with different combat styles.


Stringozzi might be too new of a skill to even be considered.

and yeah shieldbutt is so high because it doesn't require a lot of perms to make it a useful combat suite.
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Re: What skill should I take next?

Postby Thoros » Sat Oct 23, 2010 11:19 am

deadned wrote:I'm a little surprised to see that Shieldbutt is tier 1 and Stringozzi isn't even on the list! I suppose it has to do with different combat styles.

Not really. There are spell-slinging combat styles for both Pastamancer and Sauceror spells, neither of which is really augmented much by Stringozzi. For elemental monsters, a properly-tuned Stuffed Mortar Shell will be better than Stringozzi 100% of the time, and for non-elemental monsters, you can use Sauceror spell-slinging strategies to rack up more damage for less MP. I suppose you could make the argument that in terms of single skills, Stringozzi is better than any one skill from the other two spell-slinging strategies, but then again, Shieldbutt beats out Stringozzi as a stand-alone skill.
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Re: What skill should I take next?

Postby deadned » Wed Oct 27, 2010 11:36 am

The really nice thing about Stringozzi is the poison damage, it will eventually do the same amount of damage as a tuned shell , even against non-elemental monsters. I don't know how to go about comparing shieldbutt to Stringozzi in a meaningful way, since the shield you use affects damage and whatnot. I just wasn't all that impressed when i used shieldbutt.
Tuned shells certainly are better, but Stringozzi isn't that bad.
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Re: What skill should I take next?

Postby Thoros » Sat Oct 30, 2010 12:54 pm

deadned wrote:The really nice thing about Stringozzi is the poison damage, it will eventually do the same amount of damage as a tuned shell , even against non-elemental monsters. I don't know how to go about comparing shieldbutt to Stringozzi in a meaningful way, since the shield you use affects damage and whatnot. I just wasn't all that impressed when i used shieldbutt.
Tuned shells certainly are better, but Stringozzi isn't that bad.

Now do that spreadsheet with Saucespheres taken into account on the Sauceror spells, plus Bandersnatch, and you'll suddenly be looking at very different calculations.

Aside from that, though, the advantage Shieldbutt has for low-level players is that you essentially only need to focus on one stat to be effective in combat and have great survivability. It worked very well for me for 30ish hardcore ascensions, although now I'm working on a spell-slinging set.

So how about this? IF you are intent on spellslinging, and IF you don't have a Bandersnatch, and IF you have no complimentary combat skills/buffs, THEN Stringozzi makes it into Tier 1.
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Re: What skill should I take next?

Postby deadned » Wed Nov 03, 2010 6:34 pm

It doesn't have to be tier 1. I just expected it to be on the list. I usually cast Stringozzi in the first couple of rounds, and then do whatever i would normally do, and i hardly ever have to worry about MP.
Saucesphere + bander makes the chart look different. good point.
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Re: What skill should I take next?

Postby salticid » Thu Nov 04, 2010 4:32 pm

If you have shieldbutt, you don't really need other combat skills. No other skill is like that. One player might opt to get Stringozzi and be very happy with it. There is nothing wrong with that option, but most players will get the most out of shieldbutt. And once you have shieldbutt, other combat skills rank really low compared to skills that help your run in other ways.
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Re: What skill should I take next?

Postby BoffoBoy » Wed Jun 08, 2011 12:50 pm

This page has been instrumental in providing me with my (hardcore) skill perm order. Seriously, between this and the Bad-Moon Guide you have up, I am in awe.

The rather sweeping changes in the May 2011 Valhalla revamp really (imo) make Torso much more valuable for low skill Hardcore. That Astral Shirt is exactly what a low skill Mox Class wants; +15prismatic Damage, +Exp, and +10% all stats on a slot that isn't used by uniforms. Combine all that on an equipment slot that low skill Hardcore cannot really take full advantage of and really, it's amazing for scumming karma on a DB/AT.

Torso is also is a good skill to have for Basementing.

Cheers!
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Re: What skill should I take next?

Postby Jeekc » Sun Jun 26, 2011 10:31 pm

After I am done with the aftercore stuff this run (as a P), I plan to enter get into HCO as an AT. I plan to use the extra 100 karma for upgrading Pastamastery, but should I perm Noodles or Leash first?

Current skills: Pastamastery, Advanced Cocktailcrafting (HC)

Note: The upcoming run will be a budgetcore one because I can.
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Re: What skill should I take next?

Postby salticid » Sun Jun 26, 2011 11:20 pm

Tough call. Noodles is a bit more fun, but I think leash probably saves more turns if you have the MP to run it enough. Remember that leash ends up being everything you need (+stats, +meat, +items) exactly when you need it. It also may save you some turns at the giant familiars if you do not have another way to get them to 20 lbs.
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Re: What skill should I take next?

Postby TheKestrel » Sun Jun 26, 2011 11:24 pm

with HCO, I'd say leash - if it was just normal HC, I'd go for noodles.

Leash will speed up your run, but noodles allows you to survive higher ML as well = speed up your run. However, in HCO, you'll have potions for a lot of the run, + other buffs, making noodles less important.
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Re: What skill should I take next?

Postby mstieler » Mon Jun 27, 2011 5:56 am

I've got a pretty good idea of where I'll be going with my skills, but I figure a little input would be helpful. This account (Goobris) runs primarily SC, though I'm running BM to get the sexy beast gear, so most crafting skills I find less helpful (unless someone would like to show otherwise), since I figure a few pulls a day for booze/food/spleen (though I hope to fix the spleen issue soon with a handy RP) isn't a big deal.

Currently, I'm running BM Sauce, after which will be SC DB (maybe Booze, not sure yet), then BM AT (for the OCD Genocide trophy). After that, I'm pretty much up for what'll be helpful for either banking Karma, or just doing the runs for skills.

I'm currently sitting at 83 Karma, so post-run 294, plus 11 for the Nemesis IK, plus hopefully 11 for the level 13 IK, for a hopeful total of 316, leaving me the nice 11 karma for an Astral equip & Consumable for the DB run.

My current skills:
Torso Awaregness (HP)
Advanced Saucecrafting (P)
Unaccompanied Miner (P)
Tongue of the Walrus (HP)
Double-Fisted Skull Smashing (P)
Shieldbutt (P)
Empathy of the Newt (P)
Wisdom of the Elder Tortoises (P)
Astral Shell (P)
Amphibian Sympathy (P)
Hero of the Half-Shell (HP)
Tao of the Terrapin (P)
Curiosity of Br'er Tarrypin (P)
Entangling Noodles (P)
Cannelloni Cocoon (P)
Immaculate Seasoning (P)
The Way of Sauce (P)
Ambidextrous Funkslinging (P)

My thoughts:
1. Impetuous Sauciness and/or some Saucespheres for this run
2. Bank everything for the DB run to get some quality of life increasers (Overdeveloped Sense of Self Preservation, Mad Looting Skills, Smooth Movements)
3. Bank everything til the AT run and get a nice chunk of AT skills that I'm sorely lacking (Ode, Ur-Kel, Carlweather, Sonata, MMM, Loot, Inigos).
4. Get the 29 assorted slime skill bits I need to max those out and perm em.
5. I'm also thinking of going nuts for the AT Nemesis trophy, banking a crapton of Karma, and perming all the Hobopolis skills, Inigo's & Donho's (though Donho's not especially necessary, since it's just a "redo the quest" one).
6. Hodg skills / Gnome skills

Also, if someone happens to be selling a Rogue Program (well, Glowing Frisbee), please kmail/msg/PM me and hopefully we can work something out.
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Re: What skill should I take next?

Postby salticid » Mon Jun 27, 2011 11:59 am

Saucespheres are pretty useless. You are better off using the parrot for a few turns where needed instead of perming these skills which you will eventually not use at all.
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Re: What skill should I take next?

Postby psy » Mon Jun 27, 2011 1:02 pm

Isn't elemental saucesphere pretty useless? Where jaba (and to a lesser extent jala) pretty nice once you get your other sauce skills?
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Re: What skill should I take next?

Postby mstieler » Mon Jun 27, 2011 3:12 pm

Yeah, I wasn't planning on Elemental, since I already have Astral Shell if for some reason I need to not use the parrot, or have to have something else sit in the Crown of Thrones.

I figure I already have Intrinsic for later Sauce runs to make things easier (especially vs. the Friars & "sped up" ducks), so I'm guessing skip the Sauce spells for now?
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